In What way is Mondio 1 harder than SchH3? - Page 3

4pack, thanks for the links.

Okay, I have an answer now.  This is for us, not everybody.  Mondio is harder then Schutzhund because I found no clubs closer then 4 states away......

I completely agree with some of the comments as far as pushing the dog and things getting watered down.  I have also had friends in Germany send us training photos where there was all sorts of stuff on the field during training and all sort of distractions not generally seen here.  We had already talked about adding some of that tyoe of distrations when we're working at home if nothing else. 

I would love for the shcutzhund blind search to start standing at the middle of the field, having to direct you dog at each blind in a different order which is drawn just before the trial starts.  Not 1,2,3,4,5,6.  Maybe 5,6,1,4,3,2, mix it up.

It was fun reading some of the different excerises.

Just so you are aware, the search in Mondio isn't directed, its free, the dog runs till he finds the decoy.  I know that would make my blind search much easier in Sch regardless if its a pattern or not.

The changing of the exercises that makes it so difficult would be the equivelent of doing a send away, then having to go do your retrives, then motion exercises,  then long down, then the heeling pattern, which is still just heeling except they set the pattern the day of the trial.  If your dog can heel, this should be no problem at all.  There are people there to help you if you forget.

To me Mondio is new, it does look fun and more variable, but there is give and take in how they're testing the dog and IMO it makes some parts easier and some harder.  Overall I think if you want to do well, they'll both take a good dog, good handling, and trainers and lots of time. 

OK try the scent recognition and the food refusal excesses with your Sch dog Z. The distractions they use can be anything. They use toys that talk, vibrate, the yummiest food you can imagine to distract your dog. The difference I notice is in other dog sports, the decoy is actually against the dog, not "helping" him along. French Ring especially, I like the idea of the decoy taking points away from the dog. In life, this would be much closer to "real world". Man against dog, running, jumping, threatening in anyway that works against that particular dog. They take vast amounts more pressure than Sch dogs, who have been through the paces a 100 times and know it's a padded stick and the decoys movements are fairly the same.

The decoys at trials find out what affect particular dogs and they use that, "against the dog, not to help slide him along. Say a particular dog backs off some, when you lean over him too far. You bet your ass the decoy will be leaned over him as far as he possibly can. If a dog favors one leg to bite over another, the less preferred leg will be presented more often, hiding the one the dog really wants. They try to make the dogs faults apparent, not hidden. Dog doesn't like hands? Decoy's hands in his face, every chance the decoy gets. My favorite is the article guard. No handler around and the dog has to guard the basket by himself with the rules he was taught. Decoy gets too close to the perimeter, dog goes after him, yet he still must watch his basket and keep the decoy from grabbing it during the conflict. Decoy tries to lure the dog farther and farther from the basket and dog must remember to return to the basket before getting too far away from it, or points are taken. It's great to really see the dog thinking, not just running through the motions of a pattern.

animules, 4 states? Come now, we have only one state in between us. About 2-3 hrs north of me,  in your direction, I know of a lady who trains Mondio. I know people who drive down from higher Oregon to here, most weeks to train PSA too. GARD takes our dogs 2 1/2 hrs south Monday nights and gets home at 2-3am. Thats when you can say you are officially crazy for your dogs! LOL

Also Jeff is so right. All of that control, takes away some intensity in most dogs.

modio ring is NOT French ring, the decoy isn't against the dog in MR like it is in FR.  Like I said before there are different exercises in MR than Sch with food refusal and scent discrimination being some of them  BUt take you MR dog and lay a track and tell me what happens.  Thought so. what about the MR dog that has been thru it 100 times and knows the clatter stick will never hit them, knows the hanging bottles are just hanging bottles???

I've only seen a few MR decoys and their movements looked pretty much the same.

yes an object guard is nice to see, and different, but i've always said they have different aspects to them.  How real it is?? I'd bet I would never leave my dog buy a cooler or baby or bike etc and leave and tell him to guard, just what I'd need a dog bite with my bite trained dog on a person that got too close.  nobody around to see it, who do you think they'll come after, you or the guy that got bit??

in a MR trial, you can cue your dog between every exercise at low levels, the OB is nowhere near as precise in most dogs, but they are out there longer so its a trade.  In sch you can hand things back and forth have helpers walk back and forth while doing OB.  I call my dog to heel on picnic tables while sitting in a chair, sitting on the floor in  lake etc.  heel position is heel position. 

as said before, they are still just exercises you train for for  in both sports.  When I break it down and look at it, both have strengths and weakness when compared to each other, but I don't really think they are as different as some would like to make them appear.

zdog I am not retarded. I am well awat Monio is not FR. Mondio I addressed first. I talked more about FR because I like some of the exercises more is all.

Someone asked about Mondio not Sch. We are all aware of Sch already. No need beating that dead horse or getting into a pissing match over which is better. Everybody has their thing. I hate tracking, have no interest in it and no reason for it. That is why I choose something other than Sch. I have nothing against Schutzhund, it is just not "my" sport. I don't even like the word sport. I don't want a "sport" dog.

"I don't really think they are as different as some would like to make them appear." Not sure what this means? Is there some conspiracy of other dog sports stealing Sch people away? You sound a little threatened! Not to worry. People will do what is convenient and what is close. Near me, we have more Sch clubs that all of the other sports put together. I am sure that is the case in most areas.

I remember a time when I thought Schutzhund was the only dog sport. Somebody near and dear to me, showed me otherwise. There is no malice in showing people something more. Let them make their own choices. At least then, they have choices.

Jeff , GSDfan , Don.... [ ok Don Now i think you understand some of my posts you had a problem with in the past].. GSDs should do other sports .. i think this bull ... that a GSD needs Sch title  be breed worthy is .. well -- So the GSDCA-WDA and thwe USCA don't recognize other tiltes is so hypocritical in the GSD world .. perhaps not to thier organizations .. now please don't misunderstand .. i love sch .. and had done Sch -- furthermore .. about the GSD not being able to compete in the ring sports .. well 1. genetically they should be able to .. and 2. i have had SHOWLINE GSDs that could compete ring sports .. french and one i started in belgium ! i think ypou just don't see the dogs there , outnumbered by the mals[ of which i have had too]becuase of all this politics. beleive me .. the other sports are much more fun for you and the dog than sch and it is a lot more challenging to your dog. can't put that into words .. but believe me it is . as a matter of fasct in french ring i can do many of that right within my home .. agility , obedience , food refusal , change of positoons .. better than i was out tracking twice a wek in the rain , wind and snow !!

actually they asked about Sch and mondio, take a peek at the topic you're posting under.

I never said one was better or more difficult, they just have different exercises and different strengths and weakness when compared to each other.

I'm not concerned about people taking people away from anything, the more people doing good work with their dogs is fine in my book.

I still don't see how pointing out the differences is taking away people's choices??? or saying one is better than the other.  It may come off that way to you because maybe you have some lofty vision that ring is superior to everything else?? and I don't agree?  Kind of along the same lines that a lot of people use the arguement that since they use a bite suit and not a sleeve, they have  "real" dog doing "real" work.  Since they use a bite suit they don't have prey driven dogs, etc.  When someone brings them back to reality, they feel a little miffed, but that's not really my problem.

zdog

You just strengthened the argument ALPOPUP and I are having on the other SchH thread.

Thank you!

Yes .. someone did bring up mondio ... but i think there was a comparison in essence .. many of the rings sport , like KNVP , NVBK, Campagns , American street ring have similar characterisitcs that make them " like" as compared to Sch . -- theer lies the analogy .: first I feel Sch is super and nothing to be taken away from it ... BUT .. in other canine sports if you have seen them ..more importantly if you have tgrained in them .. you will reralize that the dog is more challenged .. the rules .. not about the handler .. it is the performance, stress level/ nerve strength  , problem solving ability about the dog not just as it relates to the helper but also the environment. for example ..in many of these dogs .. even upon the entry of attack .. they must not just have timimng , power speed .. but they must think within an instant.. which arm , which leg to hit and the decoys especially in ring are there not to present but actiually make the dog miss . case in pint .. as one may have seen .. the dog must apprehend a man on a moving bicycle -- or in another protection exercise PSA ..two people in bite suits .. dog sent on one .. the second attacks the handler and the dog must on its own accord comeoff the bite and go defend the handler being accosted. very very differnet miond set for the canine in generality and commonality within  a number of other sports .. whethere you discuss mondio , ring etc. comapred to Sch

Alpha

U are not totally wrong.  Schh is mostly about control and obedience in the Protection phase. 

Start out with the Blinds-Obedience.

Hold and Bark-Control and Obedience with the call out-No touching and No bite.

Escape-Obedience-Put the dog in a down and wait for movement.  Out the dog after the helper freezes-Hold and Bark-more obedience.

Side transport and Back Transport-Obedience, Obedience, Obedience.

I wish my dogs could run around the blinds in any fashion they see fit.  It would save me a lot of training time.